112 comments

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  Brooklyn Democrat

  3 months ago

  Have any of you Byrd bashers ever undergone change or growth in your own lives? Yes... Byrd was in the KKK in his youth...he turned into one of the greatest Senators in American history. Hugo Black was also in the KKK is his youth...he turned into one of the giants of Supreme Court history. If we were all locked into the behaviors we exhibited when we were young it'd be a helluva world.
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  Exactly. See my post about how SC justice Hugo Black (ex-klan member) was 100 times more progressive and reform-minded than ACLU founder Felix Frankfurter.
  
  Folks who insist on ignorning the last 50 years of Byrd's life are just as stupid as the klan--small minded and unwilling to change their opinions even when confronted with irrefutable evidence.
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  Derrick1

  3 months ago

  Byrd is right. Bunning is a joke as a senator.
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  Timmy

  3 months ago

  yep, even if you abhor Byrd's political stands there is no doubt Bunning isn't even in his league as a skilled senator.
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  middleman

  3 months ago

  I think on this, there should universal agreement.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  No, not at alll
  
  I will take a Bunning who could still kick any of liberal asses then elderly (I guess this is one old guy you guys like-hypocrites)
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  Oh man is that funny stuff. Byrd knows darn well the only reason Bunning was ever elected to begin with is because of name recognition.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  It's funny the Dem's are the party attacking people as racists and anti-women, but if you go down the rolls in the Congress, who has more acknowledged racists and womanizers? Bryd and Kennedy are two blots on the Dem's that the media and the majority of the Reps allow them a free pass on their past.
  
  Bryd was a leader in the Klan and Kennedy allowed a woman to die because it would look worse to be caught cheating on his wife. Seriously, there is something wrong with the liberals if these men have the morals that they want to impose on the rest of the country.
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  Dan

  3 months ago

  I don't know if the democratic party has more "acknowledged racists", but I know which party has the most unacknowledged racists.
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  These cons love to bring up the ancient history of the Dixiecrat Dems. When did that end? About 40 years ago. All the racists either converted to the GOP decades ago or are dead (or both).
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  All racists are now Rep., man you are as good as Dan with your mental capacity to see into the hearts and minds of people. Are you, Dan, or both able to use these skills for personal gain or is that against your code of ethics?
  
  Seriously, guys if you think only the GOP has racists and the DEM party is just about love and equality, you are not the one's living in the present. Which party used racist language and suttle comments all through the primary, oh yeah, that would be the DEM party. But as soon as Obama "won" the nomination, he began to attack the GOP as racists and that they looked at those around him and attacked them because of their skin color, not the outrageous thins that said, because the words that they used could only be seen as Anti-American or Anti-religion through racist ears, nothing else could be true.
  
  Guys seriously, wake up. I am pretty conservative on most issues because the larger the government and the more we give up our freedoms to be equal, the less freedom we end up with and the less equal we are in the end. If you want a history lesson, read Animal Farm and compare the language of equality there with the DEM party today.
  
  If you are a DEM voter, good for you, but make sure your reasons are based in fact, not fantasy because "you know" something about the hearts and minds of the other party.
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  "Obama is John Kerry with a tan". Who said that recently? I'll just tell you it was a Republican.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  Look at the politics of the two men, they are the same.
  
  When a Dem says that people will not vote for Obama in my state because he's black, I guess that is not racist, just a truth teller. Thanks, I thought that way about Democratic Governor Rendell, but I just needed your seconding of my thoughts.
  
  Get real. there are examples of both sides, you're failure to acknowledge that just shows you're out of touch with reall issues today.
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  The person who says some people will not vote for Obama because he is black is not a racist, its a factual statement. The people who will not vote for him because he is black are racist. Is that really that difficult to understand? (You think Rendell will not vote for Obama? He wasn't talking about himself you know).
  
  And evidently you support the "tan" statement eh? hhmmmm....for somebody that supposedly decries racism....
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  Derrick1

  3 months ago

  "Obama is John Kerry with a tan" is not a racist statement Dave? What planet do you live on?
  
  It is not necessarily a horribly offenseive or hateful statement, but it is racist.
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  Carol

  3 months ago

  Grover Norquist said that, that Obama is John Kerry with a tan. Then I went to Americablog.com which is political news/commentary from the perspective of mostly gay people. I read this comment posted on Americablog: that while "Grover Norquist says Obama is John Kerry with a tan, that Grover Norquist is Liberace with a wife."
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  And how is that racist?
  
  You Dems are the ones who play race card
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  That's great that you can read minds on such a powerful issue like, racism. Can you read minds on other important issues, like raising taxes, defense of country, improving the economy? I know which party has more acknowledged leaders in those issues, but will you use your mind reading abilities and help me out for sure?
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  Just GOP talking points....they do nothing for anyone anymore.
  
  Here is a concrete example for you of McCain's huge tax increase he has planned for the middle class. He wants to end the exclusion from taxable income for employer paid health insurance. I, and I guarantee the vast majority of the country, don't want my health insurance benefits taxed. Its amazing McSame has gotten such a pass on this. He is the one who is going to raise taxes on the middle class, while Obama will cut them. The ignorance on this fact is astounding.
  
  If you are rich, then I can't blame you for wanting more of the same. But otherwise.....yikes.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  Thanks for not answering my question, but that's okay. A concrete example is what you're looking for, okay. 1.4 Trillion promised in new spending for America over the next 10 years. The rich are going to be the only ones that have their taxes raised to cover this "bill."
  
  We are almost at 40% of the population that ends up paying 0.00 for their federal tax bill. The Top 1% pays more than HALF of all taxes in federal income tax. The bottom 10% pay less than 1%. These are facts. If you think that Obama, who has promised to triple taxes on Capital Gains, is going to keep his parties desire to take in as much money as possible so they can engineer our country, then good luck to you. Investment in the stock market is done by a great number of middle-income and even lower-income Americans through 401K plans. I hope that you realized that as you talked about ignorance on the facts. When Obama was confronted with the reality that the last time Captial Gains were taxed at a higher rate and the amount of revenue was lowered, he said in a debate with Hillary Clinton, I know that but we need to be fair. Fair is doing what you want and thinking others will agree with you. Fair is a joke word because it means nothing. Do not be fair, be honest.
  
  These are not GOP talking points, I do not get the memo, nor would I want to. I am a conservative, not a GOP 1st. In fact, I look at what will be best for the country, then my family, then myself.
  
  By the way, I do not think more than 0.00001% of the country cares about your health insurance benefits. They care about their ability to take care of themselves, you know self-reliance. That is a conservative concept but they did teach that in school years ago, when I went. By the way, I'm 36, I teach, and I require my students to engage in thinking about issues, not just taking my word or anyone elses.
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  Robert

  3 months ago

  Your previous question was rhetorical.
  
  Anyway, its news to me (and anyone on earth) that Obama wants to raise the capital gains tax rate to 45% (seeing that the top rate is 15%...and in some cases even higher). And speaking of ignorance - for people that invest in 401k's the capital gains tax rate does not matter at all. Withdrawals are taxed as ordinary income.
  
  “By the way, I do not think more than 0.00001% of the country cares about your health insurance benefits”.
  Oh please, you know darn well that is not what I meant so lets not play games. It was easy to see that what I meant was nearly EVERYONE does not want THEIR health insurance benefits taxed, which is what McCain wants to do. When voters find that out, they will care VERY MUCH about it. If you want to dispute something, then tell me people don't care if their health insurance benefits are taxed.....and I will get a good laugh.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  Acutally it was not but that is okay, I guess you cannot read minds or you'd have known that.
  
  Words matter, what you say and what you write matter. When I make a mistake or mistype, I own up to it, do you? If you want to go back and forth, stand by your words and be more careful in what you write.
  
  Your candidate can get away with "this is not what I meant, so let's try again," but you and I we can agree that words do have meaning, right?
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  Derrick1

  3 months ago

  Right Robert. 401k distributions are not taxed at capital gain rates. "lefty" needs to learn that before he tries to imply somebody else is ignorant he better make sure he knows what he is talking about first, lest he be made a fool of. I hope he is not "teaching" tax law. If he is he needs to be fired quick!
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  Well, then I guess no one really does watch the debates for the DEMs because he promised that during the Penn. debates, you know when he was so upset about being asked about the Rev. Wright and how horrible that "personal attack" was. He stated that even though it woulld cost the government some of its money, ITS MONEY, he would raise the tax because it was the fair thing to do. Do you challenge that he said it or that he meant it?
  
  You might be correct about the 401K, I have talked with my investment broker about it. What is your tax policy towards the poor and the "rich" you know those that make what 100k, 200k, 300k?
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  DBX

  3 months ago

  Believe me, those who pay minimal to no income tax more than make up for it with an exorbitant share of the sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes and user fees. There are very few states indeed where local revenue-raising is sufficiently progressive to result in an outcome where you actually have progressive taxation.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  So if the local taxes are so high, which I do not disagree with by the way, would not a more sensible approach be to have a federal and state tax system that encourages more people to gain wealth instead of having people punished for it.
  
  Progressive taxation is just another way of getting people to buy into the idea of punishing people who are successful in making money. For those that get their wealth from their families, they do not pay taxes at the same level as those who work for it because the income is viewed and taxed diferently.
  
  We all pay the taxes that you named, but we also pay about another 90+ taxes that have come into existence since the time of the income tax as part of our Constitution. Wouldn't less taxation on the people who make money encourage them to spend it, invest it, and use it more than if they are taxed and therefore not allowed to decide how the money is used, but the government decides.
  
  Have we seen any stories lately, say the last 30 years of government efficiency in makig things happen. Can't remember too many, but if we give the government (at all levels) enough money they will take care of us, especially those who have been taught in public (government) schools who unfortunatley have been increasingly less-educated in recent years. Saw a state today that we have have a 68% graduation rate but have spent since 1980(?) more than 3x in adjusted dollars on education. Nice government results, can we afford to let government have more money to do even less when we need it more?
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  and the Dems give handouts to lazy people.
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  nemo

  3 months ago

  Yeah, okay, like to Haliburton, Blackwater, Bear Stearns. God how I hate how the Dems keep giving those lazy sons of bitches handouts.
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  nemo

  3 months ago

  Maybe, but the Repubs certainly have the lead when it comes to pedophiles and sexual deviants. Democrats are really going to have to work on improving thier wide stances and pick-up lines for under-18 interns to keep pace with the GOP!
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  Derrick1

  3 months ago

  Repubs are often sexual deviants and pedophiles since they are repressed sexually. There are also a lot of self-loathing gay cons that hide it. Cons try to bottle up their sexual desires, but they can't do it forever. Then they molest some little kids to get out their frustrations.
  
  If cons didn't repress themselves so much they would be a lot less prone to sexual misconduct.
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  lefty131

  3 months ago

  Fair point, but you can ask Barney Frank for advice, if you really want to stay within the party itself. Becareful of your attacks, because both parties have their issues. If you want to attack the GOP, be aware the DEM has issues themselves.
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  Land of the Free (ks)

  3 months ago

  Some Americans love the concept of self-reliance unless they see evidence of the fact that someone who doesn't rightfully "deserve" to be doing better than them is actually richer, smarter, and is financially independent (has their own business). Then, it MUST be affirmative action that got that person where you couldn't get with the hisotrically bestowed privileges that your "conservative-ness" allows.
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  middleman

  3 months ago

  These guys are both great arguments for term limits. EIther that or assisted suicide.
  
  Bunning is so incompetent he has to compete in debates via satellite so he can use a teleprompter.
  
  Byrd, while a more skillful legislator to be sure, was in the Klan. I don't care what his fan/apologists say, but he was in the freaking Klan! I have a great capacity for foregiveness, but I have a zero tolerance for Klan membership. Zero. Just let Rockefeller be the senior senator, for pete's sake.
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  Big deal. Byrd was in the klan. People change. "Amazing Grace" was written by an ex-slave trader who repented and became an abolitionist. There are endless examples of people who realized they were wrong about something and changed. Are you saying that there is no forgiveness ever? That's pretty pathetic if that's the case.
  
  As a Democrat, I mistakenly thought all of the white people who would never vote for a black person had left the party two decades ago. I was wrong. They call themselves good liberals; they've never been in the klan but they would walk through hell wearing gasoline drawers before voting for Obama. Why? Because, in their heart, they feel he is inferior.
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  jgrillo

  3 months ago

  I agree we should forgive but I don't believe in selective forgiveness based on political party affiliation.
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  middleman

  3 months ago

  Zero tolerance for the Klan. They were hanging boys in trees when Byrd was a member. I would never support someone who ever thought that group was worthy of support.
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  Oh, get a life. Your position is too absurd and uninformed to even bother with. Perhaps you should read about the klan. For some, it was a "club" for whites if you wanted to advance politically and socially.
  
  Also, Justice Hugo Black once belonged to the Alabama klan. Black became one of the most progressive SC justices ever. He railed against segregation and attempts to stop southern blacks from joining unions, etc.
  
  Contrast that with ACLU founder, Justice Felix Frankfurter, who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to support school desegation.
  
  I'd rather have a reformed klan member than someone who is still a bigot but just never belonged to the klan. There are plenty of them in the senate today: Richard Shelby, Jeff Sessions to name two. And Jesse Helms never belonged to the klan but you couldn't find a more disgusting racist and homophobe. George Allen never belonged to the klan. Does anybody doubt what a racist he is?
  
  Folks need to look beyond labels.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Oh please so all Republican Southern Senators are bigots? Then I guess all members of Black Caucus are racists too
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  Where did I say all Republican senators are bigots? I specifically named two current and two former ones who are.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Not one of those Senators you named are bigots
  
  I adore Sessions you came back and gave those liberals hell for voting him down. Payback
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  I know you love Sessions because you're a bigot, too!
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  I don't know whether Sessions is a bigot or not, but he's definitely a crook.
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  Derrick1

  3 months ago

  Jesse Helms died today. Talk about a prime example of a former Dixiecrat who turned Republican to better fit his racist views.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  There you guys go! A man just died and you are acting like the trashy party you belong too. You can always tell Democrats are when a man passes away they act like the vulgar people they are; the kids picked on in schools cause they were losers and still are.
  
  I am so happy to be part of a party with class and values instead of trashy, snide, elitists.
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  I am not a hypocrite. Helms was a loathesome, lying racist homophobe. If there's a hell, he's in it. Here's the notorious "white hands" ad he used to defeat a black opponent (who had been leading). It's still one of the most talked-about pieces of racist-coding in political advertising:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXMzk
  
  He almost got the NEA abolished. He DID get individual grants to artists abolished, to this very day.
  
  "He fought bitterly against Federal aid for AIDS research and treatment, saying the disease resulted from “unnatural” and “disgusting” homosexual behavior.
  
  “Nothing positive happened to Sodom and Gomorrah,” he said, “and nothing positive is likely to happen to America if our people succumb to the drumbeats of support for the homosexual lifestyle.”
  
  In his last year in the Senate, he decided to support AIDS measures in Africa, where heterosexual transmission of the disease is most common.
  
  NY TIMES
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  I hope his death was prolonged and painful and humiliating. I hope he had just enough dementia to know how helpless he was becoming. I hope he was incontinent. I hope it made him more than usually repulsive. I hope his family suffered at his end as much as they probably smiled when they thought of my friends dying unhelped. Nobody who willingly married him or was brought up by him could be any good.
  
  Nobody was trashier than Helms, nobody was more snide, and nobody was more elitist. He thought anybody who didn't believe as Jesse Helms believed had any right to LIVE. Now THAT'S elitist.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Yeah he was such a racist who fought to protect the lives of all those babies murdered every year (no matter their skin color), worked to vote and cofirmn Thomas, and worked with Bono of all people for the largest AIDS increase which benefits many blacks in Africa
  
  What you may find to be art I may not find to be art so public money should not be spent on art work which has in many cases been vulgar too many.
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  This is the most absurd statement I've ever read. Helms opposed abortion but voted against anything that would help a child in need of food or clothing. He voted to confirm Thomas because Thomas has so much self-hatred and he was sure Thomas would be as anti-black as Helms was himself.
  
  Helms was gross and vile and despicable. I should go to his funeral so that I can pay my DISrespect!!
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  So now Thomas is anti-black?
  
  Thats such a racist statement you should be ashamed.
  
  Oh please Helms helped many kids, he was against their lazy ass parents who like to take out money through welfare
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  If you won't help the parents, please explain how you can help the kids. Did Helms give food stamps directly to the poor kids and simply bypass the parents.
  
  Yes, Thomas is anti-black. Why else would he have a confederate flag on his desk? Being from the segregated south, he knows exactly what that flag came to symbolize. Thomas is a dumbass. You people are so against affirmative action but you support having this C-student on the supreme court simply because he does your disgusting bidding.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Now I get it you are gay
  
  I need to say nothing else lol
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  That you need to say nothing else would be true, no matter what my sexual orientation. But at least Helms wasn't as stupid as Bunning. He was ignorant and mean, like you, but had cunning. Bunning only rhymes with it. If they had more sports has-beens living in Kentucky, you might have gotten one of the smarter ones, but you're stuck with somebody you can only defend with box scores and batting averages.
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  moderatti

  3 months ago

  I am so amused by Dave! Whoever came up with his cartoon-of-himself persona is a skilled humorist. Well done, Man-Behind-Dave-Curtain!
  
  Of course, if Dave is a real person expressing his real thoughts, I'll be surprised, but I'll apologize for being disparaging in advance.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Oh moderatti or what other troll name you have today you really do need help. Follow the light and open up your brain it may shock you when you come out of that liberal idiotic stalemate you are in.
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  My only regret is that Helms lasted so long. He was a vile, disgusting piece of shit of a "human being" (and I use the term loosely). I'm ashamed to live in a state that elected such an avowed racist in the mid-1990s.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  I am sure NC is ashamed of you
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  NCYvonne

  3 months ago

  You think?
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  Jake

  3 months ago

  "I am so happy to be part of a party with class and values instead of trashy, snide, elitists." Which party is that? I wish we had one like that to vote for. I know you can't mean the Republican Party... most of the Republicans in the last 15 years wouldn't know "class and values" if it hit them, e.g., Rep. Fowely, Sen. Craig, Speaker Gingrich, Associate Justice Thomas, Rep. Fossella, Rep. Doolittle, Rep. Renzi, Sen. Stevens, VP Cheney, and let's not forget Pres. Bush; to name a few. Grand Old Party my ass.
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  Isn't Bunning the guy who has dementia and was almost defeated last time?
  
  "In April 2006, he was selected by Time as one of "America's Five Worst Senators." The magazine dubbed him The Underperformer for his "lackluster performance", noting he "shows little interest in policy unless it involves baseball", and criticized his hostility towards staff and fellow Senators and his "bizarre behavior" during his 2004 campaign."
  
  For an account of the latter, see here:
  
  http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10...
  
  Byrd is 14 years older than Bunning and much sharper. I expect he's not the only one in the Senate to whom Bunning is a joke. And if Byrd is a racist, howcum Bunning's the one who made fun of his opponent by saying "he looks like one of Saddam Hussein's sons"?
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Now you are using Salon and Time Magazine as a creditable source? Liberal bias anyone?
  
  You guys want to defend that type of behavior that is fine but if the shoe was on the other foot you would all be crying foul. The Republicans should of voted to have Byrd stripped of his right to speak fro the rest of the day on Senate floor.
  
  Bottom line is whether you like or do not like a current Senator he or she is still an elected official and has as much right as the other person to challenge a ruling.
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  Time's rating is a matter of opinion. Bunning's weird and xenophobic behavior in the 2004 race are a matter of public record, and I see you have nothing to say as to the facts of the matter. Unfortunately for you and Bunning, when facts appear in Salon they don't automatically become untrue. As for your last point, of course he does. And if he does it in a pompous way, and he's an idiot and an ass, Byrd has a right to double over with laughter. I don't know anything more about the incident on the Senate floor than what's in the Politico post, but this thread was begun with an attack on Byrd. Byrd is a thousand times the Senator that Bunning is.
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  Dave

  3 months ago

  Salon is liberal crap site.
  
  Bunning won re-election much to your anger and I proved my point already, Hypocrites!
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  You're an idiot. Bunning has a 45 approval and a 43 disapproval, but you go right ahead and call him the voice of the people if you want to. By the way, here are TIME's lists:
  
  The Best Senators
  Thad Cochran
  Kent Conrad
  Dick Durbin
  Ted Kennedy
  Jon Kyl
  Carl Levin
  Richard Lugar
  John McCain
  Olympia J. Snowe
  Arlen Specter
  
  The Worst Senators
  Daniel Akaka
  Wayne Allard
  Jim Bunning
  Conrad Burns
  Mark Dayton
  
  Obviously there were liberals and conservatives on both. If you want to say McCain's a lousy Senator now, because bad old Time Magazine called him a good one, be my guest, stupid.
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  ducdebrabant

  3 months ago

  It always amuses me when Byrd's long ago Klan membership is used as an insult by Republicans who act as if they still BELONG to the Ku Klux Klan.
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